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Suiterunner

Difference between this effort and Mozilla2

- Could someone tell me the difference between this effort and Mozilla2?

Well, there no relation :-) Mozilla2 is about making major change in the Core (the low level part shared between all mozilla.org applications) to support new advanced functions. Between two release of an application, it's difficult to make such change, that involve a significant risk of unstability. OTOH not doing that means the evolution of the soft is impaired, and it will keep forever some code whose shortcomings are well known, and that at the end more time has been spent correcting that would have been needed to write again better.

The Seamonkey effort is about continuing to release new versions of the mozilla suite application, the original mozilla, that is in danger of dying in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird. Initially FF/TB were just separating the navigation/mail code from the whole of the suite, but they have now evolved in their own direction that not every user of the suite likes.

Idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases

I have some idea about the best way to do new Seamonkey releases. See my user page for that jmdesp

If would like to know if other people share my view, and if they approve including this plan on the Seamonkey effort pages.

It makes sense to me to build off the same branch that FF and TB use. I would also suggest that a release candidate 1 build be built from the branch as soon as possible after the branch. Further release candidates would be created off the branch until one of the candidates is deemed the final release. These release candidates would help get testing from the widest base of users possible. Schapel 09:20, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)

I can't remember how this works. I recall back when Fx was called Phoenix, it was cut from a Seamonkey branch, and picked up changes from there. Now it seems to use the Aviary branch only.

Probably the best thing to do from the standpoint of MoFo would be to strictly divide things -- for example, the core rendering/netlib/security be developed as a core, Fx and Tb as user interfaces, and Seamonkey as another UI.

Barring that, beg borrow and steal. Of course, I really don't know much about how things are made, honestly. --irixman

Question - FF & TB under SM?

If the seperated Thunderbird and Firefox are going to be the focus from Mozilla now, and (IMHO) most Seamonkey (Browser Suite) users use the brower/mail over other Suite features in general, than why can't an "official" bridge be made for a unified interface to the 2 seperate apps? This would allow a seamless transisition between mail and browser, a standardized install routine, and insure no overlap of features for expediant processing and coding. Maybe call it the "ThunderFox Shell"? Justa' wonderin'...

MRK

This is not the goal of this project. The goal is not only to have a single application for mail and browser. The goal is to have the whole look and feel including all the advantages of the (in my opinion more advanced) GUI in the suite and "backport" the few advantages that Firefox and Thunderbird have to the "new suite", but don't add the disadvantages of the two single applications. -- Mreimer 00:33, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)

Mreimer, what are these disadvantages of the stand alone FF/TB apps? Just curious. -DrSeuss

To name only a few of them: - I don't like to install several apps (I don't like the concept of creating several applications out of something that fits great in a suite at all) - I don't like the "simplified" interface of Firefox and Thunderbird - Firefox and Thunderbird don't work together as good as mozilla mail and mozilla navigator in the suite (firefox deals with tb as good as with every "foreign" mailer) - I don't have Composer and Chat if I use just the single applications -- Mreimer 09:13, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)

FF&TB also missing some features that are used in companies. Also, the PasswordManager, DownloadManager aren't like some peoples it want ... only to add some points to the list. -- Opi 09:39, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)

Advantages of SM to FF/TB IMHO is that you have one application (SM) for differend needs (Mail, Browser, Chat, (maybe Calender if you want). Than you have one Perference Menu for all Parts of the Programm. An about:config for both Mail/Browser in one Programm. Only one installation of Extensions that will fit Browser/Mail. And (important for multiple installations) one patch fit Browser/Mail instead of 2 independent Patch-Installations for 2 Programms (like TB/FF). -- Tomcat 13:40, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)

One I just learned about, something I use all the time: right click on a link in mail, select "open in new tab." Apparently you can't do that with FF&TB L2

Idea: Mozilla users base contributions on offical 1.8 release?

Consider this a product of brainstorming - it may be worth something or just junk. You can decide if it's worth keeping or if it's just nothing.

I noticed that there is a donation page at mozilla.org ([1]). What if users offered to contribute to mozilla.org only if their contribution went towards further develpment on mozilla seamonkey (or at least an official mozilla release of 1.8)? That might persuade mozilla.org to at least release a 1.8 version.

You've probably seen this already: [2]

"# The Mozilla Foundation will provide infrastructure for those interested in working on the 1.7.x releases, which we expect will include a number of vendors who provide these products to their customers. We've committed to support the 1.7 branch some time ago. If we ship 1.8 we'll need to support that as well, and we just can't manage supporting that many versions as well as Firefox and Thunderbird releases."

What I don't understand is why don't they just finish 1.8, and support THAT version (and stop support on 1.7x). They wouldn't be supporting two versions of seamonkey, and vendors would be getting support for an updated improved version.

Dean

From my glance at the FTP site, we are on 1.7rc3. 1.8 just went into beta1. If MoFo wants to release 1.8, it would mean having a full beta process with feature freezes, release candidates, and a generally long process. It would also mean throwing away all the work done to make 1.7 a stable product, and starting it over on 1.8. MoFo probably wants to get seamonkey out the door and stop any new development. -- Owen

Mozilla is on 1.7.5 and 1.7.6 will released in the next weeks. For 1.8 there exists a 1.8b1 and a 1.8b2 will also released in the end of the month. -- Opi 09:00, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)

I manage the donations@mozilla.org address. It has been suggested many times that donations could be earmarked for a specific project (including by me) but MoFo has always rejected the idea. They are concerned that high profile projects (e.g. Firefox) may get all the funding to the detriment of equally important projects (e.g. Bugzilla). At the end of the day we get so many donations they wouldn't notice if a (probably) small number of people insisted they wanted to donate for SeaMonkey only. -- irongut

Product Name

There has been talk of not using the gecko versioning for suite and possibly rebranding it under a new name (Seabird, Seawolf). Thoughts?

Please, I beg you all, pick a different name. SeaMonkey was the code name for Netscape 6.0 -- you all hated that one, right? Why do you want to perpetuate its name? -dveditz

Will we be allowed to use the "Mozilla" name? If so, I'd prefer sticking with Mozilla Application Suite or revising it to Mozilla Internet Suite. -- Schapel 10:21, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)

Branding Restrictions

Naming the project is mentioned in the transition plan. [emph added]

We probably won't use the same naming conventions, as we need to be clear that this is not a Mozilla Foundation product release.

[...]

There will undoubtedly be some implementation details to be worked out (e.g., can we actually use Seamonkey as a formal trademark [...]

Transition Plan

This seems to rule out a name that coordinates with other Mozilla products. This may also mean no Seamonkey. --irixman

Ana

Noone has done this yet, but different from animal-like or Mozilla-related names, I recommend Turkish word ana (pronounced /un-ah/) for the new application. (Ana as brand name with capital a.) This is the word I've been using to distinguish Firefox, Thunderbird and the main application, Mozilla Suite, who gave birth to Firefox and Thunderbird. Ana means mother (who gives birth), base, main, origin, core, essential. I think Ana is able to reflect what lies behind Mozilla Suite. It is also easy to remember. Asteko

The Teleport Suite

I suggest naming our new internet suite "The Teleport Suite", and for the slogan: "Browse at the speed of thought". Seamonkey is a little old-fashioned, and if we start inventing combinations of animals, we will still be associated to the Mozilla Foundation... I also think we have to re-design all icons. I can help you doing it. I have created a logo already:

Options

Choosing a single, strong name make promotion easier, but it also affects the internal discussions. What you call something affects how you think about it.

"The Suite" is not unique, a PC could have three or four suites on it.

The name seamonkey does not have a serious connotation see: [3]

We have choices of what kind of name do we want.

Make it coordinate with other Mozilla products: Seawolf Windhawk

Make it a derivative of the original: Dragon Wyvern Netzilla Dragonfly

Make it some other animal: Otter Hammerhead Wizard

Make it function related: Internet Suite (IS) Internet Master (IM)

Make it more abstract like Asteko's suggestion: Ana

The first three have the advantage of including a more or less ready made mascot/logo, and give a more concrete label. L Squared

Be careful

Abstract is all good and well, but we have to keep in mind that this international community employs numerous tongues. What may well sound good in one language may turn sour in another. For instance, the above suggestion of Ana, while perhaps ripe with benevolent connotations in Turkish, on the other hand, simply means hole, in Japanese. Which of course, would not be auspicious.

- Scarrow

Some names

WebMoz

OpenMoz

Webilla (Web+illa from mozilla)

Openzilla

--Vd 17:46, 11 Mar 2005 (PST)

Idea: why not have (sticky) discussion threads or a forum over at MZ?

I would assume that this sparks a lot of discussion and there will be many who want to help or have good ideas. We need some discussion forum to avoid basic ressources get crammed with comments and to make it easy for potential contributors to find their way.

So I wonder whether somebody with good ties to the Gods of Mozillazine could motivate them to create new forums for discussing this? Another solution would be mailinglists or newsgroups (or both) but with these there seems to be an increased spam problem. Johann_P

The big problem with Mozillazine is the signal to noise ratio. L2

This is true. We could use the npm.seamonkey group, but it seems to also have a high S/N ratio. I think it is very important that all efforts be coordinated at one easy place. Some threaded discussion would be the best. --irixman